This Week in Stealerships 3/18/14

"Tom McParland" (tommcparland) 03/18/2014 at 10:00 • Filed to: Stealerships, car buying

9

72

-Abernathy Motor Company of Arkansas is has been charged by the FTC for not displaying "Buyer's Guides" on used cars. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

-Car buyer charged for "etching fee," dealership never etched the VIN into the window. Customer was refunded $398 fee only when local news contacted Parkway Chevrolet in Tomball TX. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

- Customer sues Nissan dealership for "false imprisonment" for forcing her to sign a contract after hours. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is a professional car buying consultant, lover of all things automotive and a bit wagon obsessed. You can find more ramblings and plenty of carporn !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

djmanila > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 10:33

7

they still do "VIN etching" wtf?

Tom McParland > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 10:34

0

Local PD will often do it for free or cheap (under $20) because it can help with theft recovery.

vorspiel > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 10:39

2

Dealer I bought my car from pushed it and pushed it hard. They also pushed Ziebart coating and an aftermarket warranty. The warranty was the hardest push I've ever seen, closely followed by the etching and Ziebart.

ScreenShot > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 10:39

3

Breaking news!!! Used car dealers still can't be trusted!! Film at 11...

BK > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 10:41

1

And Tesla can't sell cars from the Short Hills Mall here in NJ....

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 10:44

4

I've always wondered why it takes some dealerships so long to sell you a car. Last car I bought, I went in pre-approved for financing through my credit union, decided on the car in about 45 mins, and it still took them 4 hours to finish the deal. If they hadn't already taken off with my trade I probably would have walked out.

Andrew Daisuke > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 10:47

0

Just as silly as the local Honda dealerships' "second sticker" for locking lugnuts.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > vorspiel 03/18/2014 at 10:50

5

They put that tru-coat on at the factory we can't take it off.

ranwhenparked > BK 03/18/2014 at 10:52

0

No, of course not. Franchised dealers are essential to protect consumers.

McMike > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 10:53

0

"$700 trade-in for her 2003 Nissan Altima."

"The lawsuit claims that during the evening Faulkenberry was told her Nissan Altima was not safe to drive off the premises, "

I wouldn't let anyone drive on in a $700 Altima either.

heeltoehero > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 10:53

0

My Lexus dealership throws it in for free now.

golfball > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 03/18/2014 at 10:56

0

This, my friend, is why God invented Craigslist.

Ultrakill > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 10:59

1

How did they get almost $29k for a car listed at $21k and change? That is incredible. They milked her for everything she has... I hate stealerships so much.

WhatCarDoIEvenWant > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 11:00

1

There's a dealership in TN that wouldn't sell a used focus ST without their "advantage package". It's fluffed full of stuff like that, jacking the price up $1400.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > golfball 03/18/2014 at 11:01

1

Unfortunately when your wife wants a brand new car Craigslist is not an option.

crown victor victoria > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 11:01

1

Yeah, it hasn't gone away. Same with paint protection and interior scotchguard for like $500 a pop. Last new car I bought also had a plastic deflector thing on the hood, and they had that down for over $200. It's probably a $50 aftermarket item if I am being generous.

I feel like these things are not going to die any time soon. Any time I have seen them, the dealer has removed them without a fight, so I am satisfied. If they try to hard-sell these on their supposed "merits" and resist ixnaying them, I am going to be annoyed.

It's low-hanging fruit for the dealers. For the few people who don't see or don't contest these, it probably more than pays for whatever trouble it might cause.

David E. Davis > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 11:02

0

My WRX had that done at the Honda dealer I bought it from. They absolutely, positively would not remove the charge. Luckily it was "only" $299 and I got the car for about $1K under book anyway. So I really made out.

court > Ultrakill 03/18/2014 at 11:09

0

After sales tax and finance charges, her total would be $29k assuming she paid the loan in full over the length of the contract. If she pays off the loan in have the time, she'd save and wouldn't have paid the full $29k. This dealer didn't do anything illegal.

Steve Zissou > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 03/18/2014 at 11:18

0

They took 4 hours because they knew they already had your trade and you weren't leaving. Leaving is your biggest bargaining chip.

golfball > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 03/18/2014 at 11:20

0

To sell the old car, not to buy the new one.

GRIFF > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 11:20

0

After working at a few stealerships, I'll never go back into that industry. The people I worked with were often crooks and the customers were just as bad. That "false imprisonment" case reminds me of a Tahoe I sold: the girl claimed she was going to rip up the contract and sue me because I "made her buy it," when in fact she couldn't get the car home fast enough. Turns out it didn't fit in her garage and she damaged it upon entry. Fun times.

The cycle continues. I wish someone would revolutionize the whole process... (TESLA?).

yoshispeed > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 03/18/2014 at 11:21

0

When I purchased my 2013 Mazdaspeed3 late last year I was at the dealership for 20 minutes before everything was signed. I had already negotiated an out the door price I wanted to pay and they had the paperwork waiting with the figure we agreed upon

It was the greatest dealership experience I've had so far which will help in getting me to return to them in the future.

The longest part of the deal was then actually locating a car for me since the MY was just released and there were only 3 in my state in the color and package I wanted. They even through in free tint for the trouble even though it wasn't their fault they didn't have the car.

It helps when dealerships do a job well and go the extra mile.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > golfball 03/18/2014 at 11:24

0

Again, when the wife says as you leave for work on Friday "I've had it with this piece of crap, we are buying a new car on Saturday." and the $1500 her old car is worth is your down payment, you simply say "Yes dear" and call the credit union for pre-approval and pick it up on your lunch hour.

Jason Christensen > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 11:26

3

You should do an article about car sales terminology (it says a lot about the business)...here's short list to get you started:

Salesmen's words/terms for:

Person with bad credit: "Roach" or "Cockroach"

Person with perfect credit: "Brick"

First offer the dealer presents (usually a payment loaded with a variety of extras the shopper did not ask for 'etch', warranty' 'gap insurance', etc): "First pencil"

Shoppers who do not negotiate at all: "Lay downs"

Situation where a salesperson (usually falsely) builds expectations about what a shoppers trade is worth" (usually over the phone just to bring them into the dealership): "Hook the trade"

Car deal with excessive profit: "Pounder" (as in "Rob's last deal was a pounder." or "He pounded it")

Person pissed off about their car deal coming back in to complain: "Heater"

Situation where the dealer sends the shopper home with the car but is still unsure whether or not they can get them financed: "Rolled it"

Sending a new salesperson in to try to close a deal: "Turn"

When a salesperson gives up on working with a shopper "Lot drop"

When a different sales person closes a deal with a shopper who worked with another salesperson previously but fails to split the deal: "Skate"

I'm sure there's many more, but I've been out of the business for quite some time. Still trying to shake the filth off.

Tom McParland > Jason Christensen 03/18/2014 at 11:30

0

I have thought about this but there are already articles out there that cover this, but I might be able to put a Jalop spin on it. :) Thanks for the idea.

Ultrakill > court 03/18/2014 at 11:34

0

There are plenty of things that are wrong and not illegal. Dealerships should have set prices and not take advantage of people just because they can. Restaurants don't charge more for the same dish that 2 different people order. Target doesn't charge you more if you drive a Mercedes vs a Kia...

It's all B.S. but at least I know better. Some people just don't know the games they play.

Drsweetdik > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 03/18/2014 at 11:35

0

I used to buy new cars pretty frequently. My record for in and out was less than 1/2 hour.

dogisbadob > vorspiel 03/18/2014 at 11:44

0

And this is why we need Tesla!

Canofminus > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 11:46

2

I love new car shopping.

- Show up dressed up like a schlub, my 'baby face' also helps, and watch them trip over themselves when they found out I'm well paid IT tech in his mid 30's and not some 19 year old stoner. Make sure your car is dirty!!!

- Now that I'm married to a Japanese woman, I will have her yell at me in Japanese in front of the sale staff. "The wife really doesn't like me getting this car, *we* have to make her happy about this."

- I love going over their "dealer math" written on back of paperwork. You know, where scribble a bunch of numbers while saying "This is what I can do for you" and then they ask "Just put your initials/signature right here and I'll take it to my manager to we can get this deal done." I probably spend an hour asking "what's this figure?" and then stare at it quietly for a good minute before asking the same thing about the next number. This is also where if you catch them screwing you the car price and fees magically get cheaper.

Tom McParland > Canofminus 03/18/2014 at 11:48

0

Hey man good on you for being willing to go through the circus. That is why people pay me to do all that nonsense so all they have to do is pick the car, show up to the dealer double check the paperwork and drive home.

DropTopEnvy > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 11:55

0

When I detailed cars, that was part of the job on every new vehicle - got paid .2 hours for it. Biggest waste of everyone's time and money in the car biz if you ask me. That and "fabric protection," and door edge guards. C'mon, people. DO. NOT. PAY. FOR. THIS. SHIT. Surprisingly, the extra undercoating on the vehicle may be worth it; it really does quiet the ride down. But $400 for etching a number corresponding to your vin on 5 windows? Pointless. I've never done the research, but I wonder how many cars have been recovered due to vin etching...

JCAlan > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 12:01

0

Wow 51 out of 53 cars without FTC stickers and THEY WERE GIVEN A WARNING just 6 months prior. That's a total of $816,000 in fines (16k per car.) What a bunch of morons.

DropTopEnvy > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 03/18/2014 at 12:01

0

Lesson learned: never give up the keys to your car until the deal is done. They have no reason to have your keys. Did you have the keys to the new car with the free will to drive it off the lot? No? Then they're not allowed to take your trade. They do that all the time, and what's worse is that sometimes, a few days later, they'll pull the old "oh, I'm sorry, the interest rate we approved you for isn't going to fly, it's now 10 points higher." You: "you can have the car back" Them: "we've already wholesaled your trade, no dice. Pay the new rate or we repo the car"

This shit happens a lot. I know, you had your credit union loan so it doesn't apply to you, but everyone should be aware of this. It is illegal for them to do this. They tried it on me, I told them to give me my car back and they can have theirs back. I got the rate I originally asked for, after three days and hours on the phone arguing. Like everyone says, this is why there's craigslist. This is why people hate dealers. This is why we can't have nice things!

Curt Styler > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 12:03

0

Yup. Mine was done before I even bought the car. For all I know the previous owner had it done and the dealership charged me $200 anyway.

Tom McParland > JCAlan 03/18/2014 at 12:03

0

Their website is down...big surprise.

JCAlan > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 12:10

0

Yes, at a training session I was at recently with other dealers, one was bragging that they were selling etching on 100% of their cars (presumably because it's added into the price and the customer isn't even given an option.) It's completely morally incomprehensible and gives our industry a deserved bad rep, making it that much harder for all others to gain trust and do business. VIN etching is stupid. I can make a case for the potential need for almost any product but VIN etching.

rabbit21787 > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 12:26

0

Obviously not since this wouldn't be news if they weren't expecting to have them etched

ncasolowork2 > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 12:29

0

I had a new car buying experience about a year and a half ago. I had a salesman who wasn't going to BS me because I told him I was eligible for supplier pricing. I was also educated about what I wanted. I made a trip down there by myself the first time and test drove something. I then made an appointment to come back with my wife to test drive a different model that we were also considering. Ultimately we made our decision and sat down with the manager since we were going to be buying a 2012 and the 2013s were hitting the lot. We got a great price. We paid cash though so there wasn't much the dealership could do as far as negotiations go.

When it came to take delivery we went in I wrote the check and we were out the door in a half hour or so.

Qiviut > Steve Zissou 03/18/2014 at 13:08

0

This times 100.

I have twice walked out of dealerships with a cashiers check made out to them for the agreed purchase amount (financing through credit union) because they tried this stupid shit. The CU wasn't sure what to do the first time - just cancelled the loan and deposited the check.

There is no need for the lies, the tricks, and the bullshit - dealers will soon go the way of travel agents (I hope)

Qiviut > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 13:10

0

If I ever need to buy a new car, I will be calling you. My blood pressure and sanity can't deal with these incompetent crooks. I don't know how you do it.

Tom McParland > Qiviut 03/18/2014 at 13:16

1

A lot of patience and practice. When you are ready you can find me here

or here www.automatchconsulting.com

:D

Canofminus > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 13:42

0

I love the challenge, and I know ultimately the worst case scenario is that I just go to another dealer or even an auto-broker like yourself.

Tom McParland > Canofminus 03/18/2014 at 13:43

1

Some people like the back and forth, I can definitely appreciate that. :D

Zzzzzzzzzz > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 14:39

0

NJ dealer here tried to sell me Nitrogen filled tires for $100!

Cornbreadthethird > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 14:57

0

I've had dealings with one of the Parkway Family dealerships and it was anything but pleasant.

1/10. Would not bang.

aman1234 > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 16:10

0

Cost of vin etching = $25 plus 30 seconds for a minimum wage employee to put it on. $398 - $25.12....Of course they still DO IT!

Although, the dealer I worked for didn't use the vin, they just had random numbers that were registered to you when you bought the car....And yes, i knew the actual cost of it.

Reborn Pyrrhic > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 17:19

0

Anything to get $398 for a $30 job.

Super Nintendo Chalmers > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 18:03

0

No one hates illegal practices more than me, but someone convince me with all of these "consumer protection laws" we aren't raising a nation of common senseless idiots. The story about the customer getting the money back after the fact is proof you don't need the laws and that a strong, legitimate, judicial system w/ appropriate penalties can clean up anyone's act.

Will > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 18:48

0

Yeah a quick search shows it available online DIY for about $25. Could be worth it depending on the insurance discounts you get for having it done (if any).

Because-Racecar > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 21:51

0

609 I see... nice! I'll keep you bookmarked if I ever buy another car in SJ.

Tom McParland > Because-Racecar 03/18/2014 at 22:00

1

I can work anywhere in the US as well. I just closed 2 deals, one in FL and one in CA. :)

coqui70 > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 22:59

0

Never walk into a dealer cold - negotiate your deal over the internet (get it in e-mail) and have them fax you the paperwork. I don't mind a business making a reasonable profit - just don't like getting fleeced. Always comparison shop, especially if multiple dealers in the area have the same car in stock. You'd be surprised - even two dealers owned by the same franchisee will come up with different quotes on the same damn car!

Frenchlicker > djmanila 03/18/2014 at 23:51

1

To be honest I could see this being worthwhile on truck tailgates but not too many other cars.

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/18/2014 at 23:54

0

Have you ever worked over a Subaru dealer? If I can't accomplish it myself I may have to hit you up, I'll trust a fellow Opponaut.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Canofminus 03/19/2014 at 02:36

0

I love the part about having your wife yell at you in Japanese. I like to imagine she's actually yelling complimentary things at you in an inappropriately angry tone. :-)

Tom McParland > Frenchlicker 03/19/2014 at 07:39

0

I've done several Subaru deals this year. I will tell you getting a deal on the new WRX is not going to be easy, but I did get someone a new Outback for almost 6 grand off sticker, granted the car already had 5k on the clock but still I beat them up pretty bad.

djmanila > Frenchlicker 03/19/2014 at 12:38

0

I was going to say, why go so far as to steal the door with windows or the windshield etc. if there was anything to be stolen they'd be engines, suspension, brakes, etc. They would let what is left of the shell to sit there with the VIN on it.

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/19/2014 at 21:18

0

I need a hatchback that is dog friendly(surprising that a person looking for a Subaru has a dog huh?) so an outback is exactly what I'm looking at. But I'm also thinking of the XV Crosstrek, well see what I think of that after the test drive Friday morning. But I need a reasonable car no one to go fast and be stupid.

Frenchlicker > djmanila 03/19/2014 at 21:19

0

I never could really understand car thieves so who know why or what each one may steal?

Tom McParland > Frenchlicker 03/19/2014 at 21:20

0

XV is nice but painfully slow, really just a lifted Impreza hatch. Outback is solid and the new Forester is really nice.

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/19/2014 at 21:27

0

I'm waking up painfully early Friday to go have a dealer try and lie to me just because he thinks I'm a millennial that has no clue. My only problem is how badly I want a Subaru, but I do have one trump card: I'm not buying for at least a month or two.

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/19/2014 at 21:29

0

I drive a '98 taurus and used to drive an '07 Liberty, it can't really be worse. And I can overlook it if it has tolerably highway speed.

Tom McParland > Frenchlicker 03/19/2014 at 21:33

0

I almost got an Impreza hatch 5MT but couldn't get past the sloppy transmision and terrible passing power. But I have a Mazda 3 2.5 6MT and before that I had a Subie LGT wagon. The nice thing about the XV is great MPGs for a small crossover.

Tom McParland > Frenchlicker 03/19/2014 at 22:06

0

2 things make an appointment for a test-drive and tell them specifically what cars and trims you want, make sure they have it in stock. When you get there make it very clear you are not buying today and are test driving other cars including the Escape, the CRV and the RAV4 (even if you have no intention of driving these cars) and once you decide which you like best you will contact them to talk numbers. Also give them a fake phone# or they will be calling you every 3-4 days.

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/19/2014 at 22:18

0

There was a point that I strongly disliked them but I have been walking past one in the parking garage for the past month and it's looks have grown on me.

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/19/2014 at 22:20

0

I do plan on test driving an Outlander, but that's based solely on the low price. Thanks for the advice, again if I can't make a deal I find fair when it comes time I'll use your services. I don't see a problem with paying a relatively small amount of money when it means I could potentially save thousands.

Tom McParland > Frenchlicker 03/19/2014 at 22:24

0

I'll even offer you an Oppo discount. Full service negotiations ($499) for middle package price ($299). :D

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/19/2014 at 23:15

0

What exactly is offered in the middle price one?

Tom McParland > Frenchlicker 03/20/2014 at 08:51

0

Here is an explanation I send via email to prospective customers:

I have 3 packages: Package 1 ($149) I do a personalized vehicle evaluation to match the best car to your needs, budget, and lifestyle. I then locate the best picks and give you the appropriate market value. Package 2 ($299) would mean you would get me as a consultant I will provide a full personalized vehicle evaluation that analyzes your needs, wants, budget and lifestyle to narrow down the selection of vehicles. Then I would essentially teach you the tricks on how to contact the dealers and negotiate the best deal. Package 3 ($499) you get the full vehicle evaluation in Package 2 but I do all the negotiation work saving you the time and hassle.

Of course all of the packages can apply to used, new, or lease vehicles.

Frenchlicker > Tom McParland 03/20/2014 at 11:13

0

Thanks for the info, I probably will be hitting you up soon. It seems dealerships don't take millenials serious enough. They complain that we don't want to buy cars and then most will not even give us the time of day.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 04/10/2014 at 15:20

0

I've sometimes fantasized about deciding just what I want, researching a price that would let them moan about how I was skinning them but would actually involve a small profit under the hidden incentives in play at the time, and saying, "I want the blue one over there. I'm paying cash and have 45 minutes."

But that would require buying a new car or a dealership used car, and both those scenarios leave me thinking, "Which would I rather buy: a semester of college for the younger young'un, or a new pinky ring for a car salesman?"

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > Canofminus 04/10/2014 at 15:44

0

At the last time and place where I shopped for a new car, dressing like a schlub (combined with my — then authentic, now only in dim light — youthful appearance, and short hair, and athletic build (op. cit.), was a sociologically interesting time waster. It earned me the grand tour of American muscle or Japanese GT's with thousands of dollars' worth of dealer-installed options of dubious value and awkward or impossible removeability.

The town's main industry back then was a Navy base. My lady friend's theory was that they sized me up as a sailor in civvies with pay in his pocket, and had long made an art form of picking said pocket.

But yeah, I can see that in a time and place where tech jobs are at the peak of their boom-and-bust cycle, the right sartorial encoding might tell them you're making anomalously good money for your age and fantasizing about a pre-IPO stock grant. Presumably it has to be the right form of schlubby (the modern equivalent of " in case a mountain range should spring up in the middle of the machine room "), of course. I've been out of that sector for several business cycles and probably could no longer pull off the right look even if I knew what it was anymore...